Only ‘Ellen’s’ label remains a puzzle, there seems to be zero-one called Ellen otherwise Helen, except possibly an ‘Eleanor’ towards Joanna’s side (Eleanor regarding Aquitaine, mother off Joanna’s dad King John)
Hello, group. It’s truly fascinating; everything i wouldn’t possess provided to have access to this article twenty-five years ago as i was comparing and writing Right here Getting Dragons!
An important intent behind it workout is to try, from the a review of genealogist’s views on the subject and by contacting certain understood original sources, to choose who was the caretaker from Gwladus Ddu ferch Llywelyn. Is actually she Joanna, spouse from Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (Joan Plantagenet: Born circa.1188, passed away. February 1237) or try she Tangwystl ferch Llyarch off Rhos, mistress out-of Llywelyn, created circa. 1168, died??
I’ll follow this with a secondary studies towards you are able to lives off a ded Susanna, given out over Queen Henry 111 because a great hostage inside 1228 with her infant custody are granted so you can Sir Nicholas Verdun with his partner Clementia.
The brand new opinions of Genealogists which i has analyzed are merely you to, opinions, and they differ significantly. Zero particular research can be obtained in any event, but have to state that most hold to possess Gwladus is this new child from Joanna. This is especially true of the genealogists of one’s descendants out of this new De Braose nearest and dearest, nonetheless they ily become linked with the Welsh and you will English royal households!
The ensuing list of Llywelyn’s numerous genuine and you can illegitimate youngsters appears to be fundamentally approved from the most of the genealogists that i has actually learnt apart from variations over whether no. 9 really existed. The dates away from delivery here also are debated of the specific:
- Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, born circa.1199, passed away 1244
- Gwladys Ddu ferch Llywelyn, born circa.1206, passed away 1251
- Ellen (Helen, Elen) ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1206? passed away circa 1253,
- Margred (Margaret) ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1208? died circa 1263,
- Dafydd ap Llywelyn, Prince regarding Wales, created circa 1208 (1211?) (doubts about it time, pick after), died twenty-five March 1246,
- Gwenllian ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1209 died 1281.
- Angharad ferch Llywelyn, created circa 1210, passed away 1257
- Tegwared ap Llywelyn – born circa 1210, you are able to twin in order to Angharad?
- ‘Helen’, otherwise ‘Susanna’, born circa 1214? Died 1259?
You will find far conflict across the title of one’s mothers off such children. There’s general contract that just particular college students from Llywelyn’s elizabeth Prince of Wales and you may Ellen (Helen) which hitched (1) John the new Scot, son of your earl away from Chester and (2) Robert de Quincy. Though viewpoint was split up along the moms and dads from Gwladus, Gwenllian, Margred and you may Susanna, all of the genealogists We have read lean toward the mommy getting Joanna.
This is partly using their supposed schedules out-of beginning once the better since their marriages to several marcher lords whom, one supposes, will have tried so you can line-up their homes to that of its neighbor, this new Prince away from North Wales with his partner, the latest queen of England’s child. It is believed that Гsterriksk kvinner med dating these lords of the February wouldn’t have acquired so much attract otherwise political motivation during the marrying off its sons into the illegitimate daughters out of an effective Welsh prince which have a good Welsh lady.
From what labels of these pupils, whether or not by Joanna, Tangwystl otherwise anyone else, these were all the entitled after people in Llywelyn’s family relations:
Ken, we have been completely in your financial obligation
Llywelyn’s mommy is actually entitled ‘ed ‘Susanna’ of Gwynedd. His paternal grandma is actually titled ‘Gwladus’. Mom and dad regarding his grandmother Susanna, was in fact ‘Gruffudd’ ap Cynan and you can ‘Angharad’ away from Flint and each other the labels were given to Llywelyn’s pupils. Which Susanna and additionally had an aunt called ‘Gwenllian’, a similar label given that Llywelyn’s great-grandmother.